The Bronze Medal Curse: Are Third-Place Matches Pointless? 🥉⚽ | World Cup Daily #47

[00:00:00] It is a game that absolutely no one wants to play. You've just had your World Cup dreams shattered in the semi-finals, your squad is completely running on fumes and yet you're forced to step onto the pitch one last time. Is the bronze medal match a prestigious soccer accolade or is it a meaningless commercial cash grab?

[00:00:22] Grab a brew, settle in because today in episode 47 we are 10 apart the controversy of the third place final. Welcome back to yet another episode of FUT IN REVIEW. It is episode 47. We are getting very close to that episode 50 which is the final episode of our series.

[00:00:51] My name is John and of course I couldn't do this without my wonderful team. And today joined again by my big, big friend, none other than James Toland. Welcome back James. Hello, thanks very much John. Good evening, good morning, good afternoon to our listeners. How are we? We are very good. It is a Saturday when we record this, a couple of hours before the bronze final or little final or third place final as we call it.

[00:01:19] And today we're going to have a couple of topics to see is it worth it? Why is it there? Do we ever get spectacle before? What are we expecting from this match? But to be fair, James, are you World Cup tired now or is it just about an all night? No, no. I was missing the group stages to be perfectly honest, John. You know, three games every day. You know, I'm looking forward to the final, of course, but for tonight, you know, it must be the weirdest game in football, isn't it really?

[00:01:47] Third and fourth place with the bronze. But I must admit, I'm not over the football, but I'm over maybe the Americanisation of it. Now with the final, we've got rings. I don't know if you're aware of that, but we've got rings now to the final. It's 30 rings. And then they've got under 2,000 for the public. And it's just, and when I say this, John, it's only 150,000 for the public to get one ring, World Cup ring. So yeah, I'm over that. But the football, I can't wait for football.

[00:02:16] And hopefully tonight's game, I do say it's the weirdest game in football, but over 20 third and fourth place games. There's been 76 goals, I believe. So hopefully it's a go first. Yeah, it could be. I'm looking at the history though, because the match, the bronze final, let's call it the bronze final, has been taking part since 1934. Every single World Cup, except the first one in 1930, has featured this match.

[00:02:44] But honestly, James, if you had your heart broken in the semifinal, like France or England did this week, do the players actually care about the bronze medal or they just want to pack the bags and catch the first flight home? What do you think? Exactly, John. From a player's point of view, they just want to go. They don't want to play it. Also as well, back in the mind, you'd be thinking to yourself, what happens if I get an injury here? I'm out for the start of the season with my club football over a meaningless game. So yeah, definitely for the players, yeah, it's not really worth it. But for the federations, it might be.

[00:03:11] I believe it's an actual two million added onto the prize fund. So for the federation, it could be. But the players, nah, you're not interested. Is this match fundamentally disrespectful to the player welfare? I mean, these guys have been trapped in like a high-pressure hotel bubble for six straight weeks now. They are completely running on fumes. And now they're being asked to risk any serious injury maybe in the third place game. What do you reckon?

[00:03:41] Yeah, I would say so. Definitely, especially with the heat and all the weather conditions in America. Yeah, definitely. And also from into, expect, say for example, Kobe Maydew plays tonight. He'll have, oh, I made an appearance at the World Cup, but it was a meaningless game. It was, my team got to the semi-finals, but I didn't play any minutes until after the game that was meaningless. So yeah, yeah, definitely. Then what happens if he picks up an injury like I touched on earlier? Could be it for six months. So yeah, player welfare.

[00:04:10] But listen, John, when do they ever really care about player welfare at this present moment in time with the federations and the corporations? Hey, mate, we got steady hydration break for the players. Oh, that's true. I forgot about that one. Never forget, never forget. James, is this a glorified friendly or is it a chance for the bench? Because the crushing pressure of winning the actual golden trophy is completely gone. John, we often see managers treating this like an exhibition match, right? Do we expect Thomas Tuchel and the French camp to completely rotate their starting lineups?

[00:04:39] Could this finally be the night we see lesser-used player like Minot, for example, get a full 90 minutes? I would expect so, yeah, definitely. I don't feel Mbappé is going in play for a start. But yeah, that's what I was going to talk, John, really, John. Even though it is, I mean, listen, the weirdest game and everything that I've said, in terms, I suppose, that it still adds to your caps for your national country. It still adds for goals and assists for the tournament.

[00:05:08] So if Mbappé gets a hat-trick and then, you know, it still adds to the tournament. And also as well, if he gets four goals in that game, he'll be, I believe he'll be tied with Justin Fontan. I believe he's got four goals. He's the highest goal scorer in the third and fourth place finish, I believe. So he'll be tied with a fellow Frenchman. But yeah, I suppose, you know, actually thinking about it, it has got his pros and cons, really, doesn't it? Yeah, so Justin Fontanen, he scored four times, right? Yeah. Yeah. And he's only played one game, I'm sure. I'm sure.

[00:05:36] One third and fourth place, I'm sure. No, I think he had like 13 goals in total in the World Cup by then. Yeah. Oh, sorry. In the World Cup, yeah, but he's only played one third and fourth place. Oh, yes. Yes, yes. But I think because of the third and fourth place that he got to play and scored four goals, he scored 13 goals in one World Cup. Aye. And that's still a record that's never been beaten. So if you want to go for the Golden Boot match, maybe Mbappe or Kane should just start, no? Yeah, that's true.

[00:06:05] What do you think nobody actually cares? Well, with these things, you would think maybe some footballers would care. But I do feel what I've said, you know, it's on the injuries. It's definitely on the back of their mind. It is a friendly. And because I feel it's a friendly, and I'm not going to bet in this game. I'm not going to touch it, John. I'm just going to watch it. Hope for goals. Yeah, it's a weird one because there has been historically matches for teams that mean a lot for him.

[00:06:36] I think it was Yugoslavia, but I'll just quickly check. Yeah, for smaller nations, definitely. There was one in 2002. Was it Turkey and South Korea that was in the third? Yeah, it was Korea in 98, just after they got together again. They got a third place against the Netherlands, by the way, against the reserve squad from the Netherlands as well. But they celebrated it big because it put their country back on the map, right?

[00:07:03] And then you think of Sweden in 94, after not qualifying for a while, winning four overs, Bulgaria. Getting a third place is a huge, huge achievement, of course, as well. But we also had matches like 2014, Netherlands versus Brazil, ending up 3-0 for the Netherlands. Two reserve squads playing against each other. Then the press conference started afterwards and they asked Louis Vergau, are you happy with this victory? He said, I couldn't care less. This is a match that should never exist in football.

[00:07:33] Because there's a big team like Brazil now going home on two defeats in a row. And this is actually a good World Cup for them. This doesn't reflect their performances. We go home with a victory and we were going for the World Cup. So it doesn't reflect our performances either. So I guess it's nice for the Canva Bay in this circumstance for the extra prize money. For the rest, nobody cares. That was his actual statement after beating Brazil with 3-0.

[00:07:58] So it's, you know, it's weird to look at it. Do you think France or England actually care tonight? Like? It depends. I feel, yeah, smaller sides, okay, it'll be good. But bigger sides, I feel it's in terms of mentality, John. If you're a real winner, an elite winner, and you've got that mentality to go to the top, then I don't think you should care about this game, if I'm being honest. You know, it's, you know.

[00:08:27] So I would say that it just goes with mentality, really. Fair enough. Do you know, historically, these bronze medal matches actually turned into absolutely golfers? Yes, because teams completely ditched their ultra-defensive tactics, and they don't really care too much. We've seen France beat West Germany 6-3 in 58. Sweden smashed Bulgaria 4-0 in 94. Netherlands beat Brazil 3-0 in 2014. Are we in for a chaotic, entertaining, basketball-style match in Miami Heat tonight? Possibly.

[00:08:56] 76 goals in the 20 games, I believe, John. So, yeah, I think it could be. And I have to say, John, I believe, I'm sure you've brought up 94 again. That was in America. But I'm sure that a certain man, Hemrath Larsson, scored in that game against Bulgaria. I'm sure he did. So I definitely need to add that in. Who did he play for by then? 94, he wasn't with us. So Feyenoord? Yes. Just putting it out there. Do you want to know a little bit of crazy trivia? What is the final thing?

[00:09:25] I love a stat, mate. I love it. All right. In the inaugural 1930 World Cup in Uruguay, we didn't even have a third-place match, right? Mm-hmm. So the USA and Yugoslavia went home after the semis. It actually took FIFA until 1986, 56 years later, to retroactively dug through the paper archives and award the USA the bronze medal based on group stage metrics.

[00:09:52] Is this pure FIFA bureaucratics or what? Well, our listeners and myself would say straight away, we're not surprised USA got a helping hand from them. You know, was that a phone call or back then a fax or whatever? But yes, I'll just say it's not surprising USA got a wee favour there. It's an interesting stat, though. I didn't actually realise that. Another crazy stat.

[00:10:21] Did you know the Euro, actually Euros, drop the final, like the small final, the bronze final since 1980s? That's good. They've got a bit of common sense there. They've got a bit of common sense there. We're not going to make this political, James. Don't forget that, mate. I think it's time to talk about the preview for tonight's match, though. Both of us have been incredibly vocal on the spot that this game shouldn't even exist on the calendar, right?

[00:10:50] But now that it's here, James, who actually has the mental strength to bounce back? Will England's chronic post-semi-final curse haunt them even in a bronze medal match? Or will France's superior squad tap simply outclass them in the gruelling, gruelling Miami humidity tonight? I think France, for the record with Justin Fontaine, could be a motivation. Also as well, really, it could be a motivation for the reserve team to do something good for

[00:11:19] Didier Deschamps. You know, that'll be his last ever game in charge of France. And correct me if I'm wrong, I believe he's been in charge. Thanks for not using us all, tournament. Aye, aye, exactly. Well, of course, that is well. But I believe he's been 12 years being in charge. It has. Yes, yes. So it could be a wee send-off for him, really. So I would say France. And also, I feel in the way that England get put out, I feel that was a lot, a lot of regret and sadness, even though if they won't admit it.

[00:11:47] I'm sure they will regret going so far deep. Even Donald Trump commented on Tuchel's tactics, I heard yesterday. Oh, yeah, he did. He came out and standing next to the FIFA president says he doesn't know about football, but why would you put Harry Kane on the defence? For what do I know? He said. Exactly. And he keeps bringing up the fact that he played golf with Harry. Yes, yes. And it was a surreal experience, Harry said.

[00:12:16] Oh, Harry, if you want a surreal experience, try playing golf with me. James, predictions. So you think it's going to be a high-entertaining match? Going to be full out? First question, are you staying awake for tonight? Yeah, it's an end of the day, it's still a football game. I even know it's a friendly. I'll still watch it. It's 10pm for us, UK time, so it'll be 11pm for you, right, John? Yes. Yeah, so I will watch it. Definitely something to watch. I'm usually up at that time anyway.

[00:12:46] Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. What about you? Well, I have kids. Yeah, I don't have kids. Right, okay. So, but I will because I have seen nearly every single match live. Except the matches that were played at the same time. Because I hate switching between matches. So therefore I chose. We have 104 matches in total. I believe so.

[00:13:09] Yes, so in theory I have, I think I have watched 98-ish, 96, 98 matches live so far. Or will have done that in the end. I don't think I will skip the last ones. So I'll take it out live. But I have no idea what to expect. And it's so weird though. Like every single press conference. Dembele was on the last press conference. He says, I don't want to play this match.

[00:13:37] He knows he probably won't play this match. But he could make his tournament feel a lot better if he played this match. It is such a weird thing. I think we should just get rid of it. Because it is prestigious. Yes, it's another 2 million for the associations, right? But it feels like if there's no pressure on a match, we might see more fun football to watch. But I think the pressure is also what... Would you care, James, if it was 4-0 France or 4-0 England? Is that something we're going to...

[00:14:07] We're going to do a show tomorrow. Is it something we'll wake up early to talk about on the ball? Well, do I feel it would be an interesting point? Yeah. Well, again, it's just an exhibition of friendly. Whatever result it is. It's always fun to talk about the football. But wouldn't it be the bother me who wins? No, exactly. Me neither. So what is your prediction? What's going to be the scoreline? And is there anyone he wants to highlight to watch out for tonight?

[00:14:35] I'll probably go over two and a half goals. 2-1 France. And to highlight anyone, if he's going to play instead of Mbappe, it would be... I cannot pronounce the guy's name for the life of me, John Cena, to help me. The Crystal Palace striker. Try it. You don't want that. Trust me, Matt. My... No, it's not my. It's Mateta. Mateta? We're just going to keep it from Mateta. So, Roddynce, you can laugh at me.

[00:15:05] I don't mind. So it could be because he's a big bruiser of a man. So it would be probably a header on target from that man I would look out for. And in England, Kobe Maynou, he could be a good shout to play. Rashford might play. Ollie Watkins might play. So, and also it'd be Premier League heavy, really. And all the players, if reserve players comes on. Because, you know, it's quite a lot of Premier League and French League one. And then the French squad.

[00:15:34] It's obviously England. And then it'll be contrasting for the final. It's basically for the final. I know we're not talking about the final. But it's going to be La Liga. Atletico Madrid. I think there's like eight players, nine players for Atletico Madrid. So, to answer your question, the Crystal Palace forward and Kobe Maynou to look out for. Yeah. I think if Maynou doesn't start tonight, I think he might just as well retire from international football. What a talent. How little chances do you get so far?

[00:16:04] I think Rashford might be starting. And I think he could show that he still isn't done with that. And I think Kamadweka is definitely one to aim for. Do you think Tony will start? I think Watkins will start ahead of him. Yeah. And also, with your Kobe Maynou, I forgot to mention. He was actually a starter in every game for England's last Euros campaign. Yeah. So, to go from a starter to not even playing, it's unbelievable.

[00:16:32] Well, different coach, I suppose, right? Mm-hmm. I think that's the difference. Substitution goalkeeper, you guess? Reserve goalie in? I think so, aye. I think, what have they got? Henderson or Trafford? Probably Trafford starts for me. Trafford, yeah. Well, it's going to be... It's like... Deschamps says he's not going to hold back for this match. He says that we're going to get the third match, and it is very important to get it for us. I don't know if it's just words, but we'll see.

[00:17:02] Yeah, I think it's going to be a high-scoring match. I think we might actually... I'm going to predict 4-1 to France, honestly. Fair enough. Because I think France will have to show the world that they did have an off day against Spain. And I do think there's so much talent in that team, if you look at the forwards, right? Like, Mateta probably... I wasn't thinking of.

[00:17:30] Cherki would love to show him that he's supposed to be there. Plus, he's been complaining about the fact he didn't get much time in, right? Same with Zara Emery. And they should make up for fact-inning. I do hope Kante plays. I don't know if he's fit, but it would be lovely to see Kante win more and probably one last time on the pitch. Yeah, definitely. So, yeah, looking forward to that. I just hope they don't keep all their stars back, you know? I want to see Dembele.

[00:17:58] And I would love to see, like, even if it's just 45 minutes of Dembele and Mbappé, Olyssé and Barclough or Slash-Doué, just 45 minutes of him would already be very nice. Just to end the tournament on a big difference. Or just on the high or so. Well, based on Didier Duchamp's comments, then possibly I might be wrong. Mbappé makes that. Would be nice. I doubt it.

[00:18:24] I think many will see this as, like, an edit. I have some interesting fact I saw. I saw on the advertisements at the semifinals that there were still tickets available for the World Cup final. Oh, really? Yes, they are. So I think I took a quick dive and it would be nice if there's some spots still available.

[00:18:51] Unfortunately, the cheapest I could find was €2,800. So I don't think I'm actually coming. Is that old, John? Yeah. Yeah, no. If it was €26, I would probably do it, you know? But I was like, yeah. Crazy prices. Yeah, it's crazy prices, but it definitely is going to be a spectacle. We'll talk about that tomorrow, though. So on tomorrow's show, we'll be looking back at the bronze final. Let's see if it actually becomes like a high-scoring spectacle.

[00:19:20] I do hope so, James. We're going to preview La Roja versus Argentina. And I also want to prediction on tomorrow's show how long you'd think, the halftime show will actually last. Put more on that tomorrow. Thank you so much for listening and watching us. Keep dropping those five-star reviews. Thank you for all the coffee you bought. It keeps us going. One more coffee and I can last tonight as well. But we'll be back tomorrow. See you. Bye-bye. Bye. Bye-bye. Thank you.