634: The Evolving State of FC25

[00:00:00] Hello footies and welcome to your latest episode of FUT IN REVIEW. My name is Nathan, you could

[00:00:04] probably see or hear the fact that I am not the silky smooth voice of our good friend Dan Orwimbe.

[00:00:11] Unfortunately he's sitting this one out due to it being school holidays if you heard the shorts last

[00:00:16] night. I have the great pleasure though of being joined by the other most regular member of the

[00:00:22] Fun Tuesday Club, Shaq you're here today, how are you doing pal? I'm doing fabulous thank you very

[00:00:28] much Nathan, I think this is the first show that you and me are doing together if I'm not mistaken.

[00:00:33] It quite possibly is if it's just the two of us, there might have been one snuck through a year or

[00:00:37] two ago but it's uh we do so many of these that it's hard to keep track. That's right, that's right.

[00:00:44] Yeah but just uh just want to start off with saying how's your week been? How's your week in

[00:00:48] foot been? Have you have you played a lot? Have you grinded? What's it been like? I think I'm doing

[00:00:54] one of those Jekyll and Hyde things where and it's really correlated to my weekend and whether I play

[00:00:59] champs or not. Last week at this time I was really frustrated but this week because I haven't played

[00:01:06] champs I really had a fun weekend. I just gone just went and played rivals when I felt like playing

[00:01:13] rivals. I played some squad battles and I'm um it's a weird relationship with the game right now but it's

[00:01:18] fairly positive. I'm not hating on it because I'm not really chasing anything. The only thing that I'm

[00:01:24] is uh a lack of good back luck for fodder but otherwise it's all good. Yeah there seems to be

[00:01:30] lots of things to put fodder into but maybe less way of uh of generating that fodder and uh I know uh

[00:01:37] listen to the shorts last night as well John and and Dan had a good little section about positive

[00:01:41] mindset. Have you kind of adapted that now? Because I know early in the game there was a lot of people

[00:01:46] hating on it and I don't know whether it was the game itself, whether it was going back from these

[00:01:50] you know 95 plus rated players, whether it was a bit of both, you know like how are you finding

[00:01:56] sort of the mindset the mentality side of things? I think one of the things that a lot of people are

[00:02:01] mentioning the fact that something like champs is quite competitive this year as opposed to last

[00:02:06] year so if you're used to a certain record last year you're not going to get that sort of record

[00:02:11] consistently this year whatever that is. So for example if you were 11th win player last year

[00:02:16] you would expect to get maybe six, seven, eight wins this time which is sort of okay

[00:02:23] but the thing is all of us are sparring to the nine wins which is I think in correlation it

[00:02:28] probably is the 14 wins of last year and I think that's where a lot of frustration is coming from.

[00:02:33] Those rebalancing of the number of wins has really thrown the community apart and also

[00:02:38] champs is not an easy ride. I will quote our good old friend Nick to run the foot market

[00:02:43] it ain't easy man because it really is not. No I mean to be fair like we've said all along you know

[00:02:49] that it's kind of in the titles isn't it champs is the elite level where you'd expect it to be sweaty and

[00:02:54] you know you go in thinking it's fine I'll get my x amount of wins and I'll just not sweat and as soon

[00:02:59] as you're in there that competitive nature and I think in and most of us because you know we keep

[00:03:03] saying although we say we're quite casual but no one here is really that casual so as soon as you go

[00:03:07] into the game you don't want to be losing so I think that's where a lot of that comes from.

[00:03:12] This is obviously coming for somebody that still hasn't even ventured into champs yet

[00:03:15] qualified and still hadn't had time to actually play the thing but in terms of you know you're

[00:03:21] saying about your pack look have you had anything notable have you done any of these uh you know

[00:03:25] they've been throwing out some of these gamble packs have you have you done that some of them

[00:03:28] have you done any of them or none of them? Oh look I've been very strategic with my fodder

[00:03:33] this year and I've been extremely strategic that I skipped the hero pack from last week knowing

[00:03:37] that there's going to be an icon pack that's noteworthy the 88 plus icon SPC I really put

[00:03:43] everything together every single inch of fodder including playable cards that I've used like midemma

[00:03:49] or live cards that threw everything in plus a few coins and drumroll ended up with Crespo

[00:03:57] that's a bad one though that's a good one

[00:04:00] he's 86k on the market oh maybe maybe he's not then maybe that's a small loss though I'll take that back

[00:04:08] from my point of view I did it and to be honest originally I was quite disappointed when I looked

[00:04:13] at the it was mainly the play style plus um because the player that I got had a chip shot plus

[00:04:17] and I thought oh oh um but then I you know I'd messaged Dan and Dan said he's actually really

[00:04:24] good like that's that's a mini win for this so uh I ended up putting him in and it was Michael Owen

[00:04:29] who's 88 rated striker his stats are really good with the hunter as well so I've managed to put him in

[00:04:33] and actually like he's amazing he's he's managed to shift Rashford from the striker to the winger

[00:04:38] just so I could put him in and you know I can't complain I know he's not you know totally meta but

[00:04:42] he finishes his chances like my word he does for a player that you think no like he is really good and

[00:04:48] you know both of us here are many united fans we had an interesting day yesterday obviously but

[00:04:53] Owen kind of goes into my uh my past and present team as well so he you know he serves a purpose in

[00:04:58] rivals but he can be a squad battle uh warrior he'll help me in rush as well so actually I'm not

[00:05:04] too unhappy considering you know it's not the the card of the name that you want popping out of your

[00:05:08] pack but actually I think it it in my eyes it kind of speaks for the way the game is that you can get

[00:05:14] a player like that that's still very very usable even if you kind of look and go oh it's not the

[00:05:18] player that I was hoping for yeah I think this is the beauty of this time of the year where these

[00:05:23] kind of cards are really exceptional like I think Owen's got a five star weak foot as well uh force

[00:05:28] I think he's three star four star oh four star I could be wrong but I mean it could be because he

[00:05:33] he doesn't mess with either foot to be fair he's yeah he's is a really good card to use at this

[00:05:38] stage of the game so I think a card like that is probably a really good reward out of the pack I mean

[00:05:43] it's not the best reward that you could get but it's like in the in the good tier a usable tier

[00:05:48] which is yeah which is which is amazing well done yeah and the icon link gives everyone else a plus one

[00:05:53] as well I think so that kind of helps in the chemistry side of things so um pack look wise

[00:05:58] as well I mean I've not shouted about this because I missed last week but I think towards

[00:06:01] the tail end of last week I managed to get my uh my Vinicius as well which was quite an interesting

[00:06:06] one because I was on with Dan I said I'm just gonna quickly open this pack opened it I thought

[00:06:10] oh Brazil left wing I thought oh it's another another Neymar isn't it because I've had three

[00:06:13] Neymars already and then out popped Vinny and I said oh that's surprisingly nice so

[00:06:17] pack looks been all right although you know you get either get these very good ones

[00:06:21] the rest of them's kind of like like I've had Bethmead about six times now so good in terms of

[00:06:26] rating but terrible in terms of you know usability but my weekend foot's been quite quite calm I've

[00:06:32] kind of done my rush the rush took me about an hour and a half and luckily I didn't have much

[00:06:36] frustration with the away from keyboard warriors um rivals I managed to get um get my wins and then

[00:06:41] rivals pretty quickly I think it was uh yesterday morning I finished my my 45 points and the the

[00:06:47] last game I think the second last game was a promotion to div 2 so I thought I'm just gonna

[00:06:52] stop now as soon as I got my points in div 2 I was like I'm retiring for the rest of the week so

[00:06:56] quite happy with that so it's been been quite good for me again no chance but you know I think doing

[00:07:01] it this camera casual way seems to make me enjoy the game more and appreciate the fact that yeah you

[00:07:07] know I've not got the money that some have to get these ridiculous teams that are even in div 3

[00:07:11] therefore you see some of these god squads and you know quite quite comfortable with where it's at just now

[00:07:15] although team building's just becoming a nightmare at the moment yeah definitely I think I must call

[00:07:21] it back to the first weekend of champs that Dan and I played and we just ended up having a frustrating

[00:07:26] time whereas you hadn't played and you we it's not like we were better off because we played champs

[00:07:33] and we were exactly the same and I think that's something that I learned from that particular session

[00:07:37] of champs that I don't have to play every weekend of champs if I have the time I play champs so thank you

[00:07:42] for that Nate it was it was a good it was a good wake-up call to me to say you don't have to play

[00:07:46] every single champs because it's a few coins that's literally it we're not getting anything

[00:07:50] more than that it's just a random pack that you get so I don't think anyone that has four more for

[00:07:55] champs just stay off it if you don't have the time yeah unless you're a 15 win merchant but I think

[00:08:00] the top bins are obviously very worth it but you know at the kind of more relaxed level it's it's much

[00:08:05] of a muchness I think with some of the other options available in the packs that you can get

[00:08:10] um so moving on Shaq one of our big things again it was touched on last night um I'm gonna I'm gonna

[00:08:15] hate on Dan a little bit because we put in our chat that we were going to talk about this I think

[00:08:18] this was actually his his idea to include this and he's gone and stole it last night but

[00:08:23] finally evos are back um some really tasty options uh how do you feel about you know the lack

[00:08:29] of communication first because we'll start on the downside because I like to build it up like have you

[00:08:33] has your thoughts changed on how it was handled when they were kind of I was gonna say out of

[00:08:38] play but they weren't they were still there they just weren't any sort of new ones or fresh ones

[00:08:42] uh I don't like the fact that they didn't communicate and personally I don't know how

[00:08:48] you feel about this but I personally didn't like the fact that they just put everything all at once

[00:08:52] in evos I mean I was unaffected because I didn't have too many tradeable tradeable cards in my club

[00:08:59] but if I had a lot of tradeable clouds in my club and suddenly I see the value of my

[00:09:03] whole squad going down by hundreds of thousands of coins is a bit annoying so that part I'm not

[00:09:10] really sure if they could have handled it differently but evos are back communication

[00:09:15] is still crappy they did communicate that they messed up but that's that's where we are what's

[00:09:19] your thoughts on it yeah I mean I'm always a big advocate for communication I think uh I think

[00:09:24] communication is key in every walk of life and you know I'm a quality manager my actual real job

[00:09:30] I have to communicate with you know my team my employees my clients so I'm a big believer that

[00:09:35] you have to communicate if something's not quite right put your hands up say look we know there's

[00:09:39] an issue we are working towards I think that's why EA get quite a bit of hate because they don't

[00:09:44] communicate uh on the other hand you know they have almost I say almost made up for it I mean when

[00:09:50] you look at some of the the evos they've brought some of them are crazy good you know crazy good some

[00:09:55] there's a bit of me that says you know I still don't want to drop you know that was it the bam

[00:09:59] the create the brilliant bampastor 70k do you really want to put 70k into a card which

[00:10:03] going by the cycle you know it could take off next week and actually these be left behind even as good

[00:10:08] as they are there's some really good sort of free ones as well this and there is a variety of players

[00:10:13] that fit so I'm really happy they're back it's it's really tough deciding though because some of

[00:10:17] these are so good it's really hard to kind of think I want x y and z to be that evil player and

[00:10:22] you know Dan's a big advocate we know for wait and see what comes so you can chain them I've not

[00:10:26] seen any crazy change so far um I know they talked about the um sissoko one yeah that one

[00:10:35] does look crazy good if you can link him um but I'm really happy they've brought them back I mean

[00:10:40] it does add more things to do to the game and it's something I want to touch on is kind of the state of

[00:10:45] the game just now um so we'll do that later but I think it's a good thing I think they've kind of

[00:10:50] improved in terms of the players and the selections you can have as on you know last years where evos

[00:10:56] were very limited and there was only one or two players getting done and you see the same evos like

[00:11:00] everywhere um for somebody like personally I've only done three evos uh I've done my new uh

[00:11:06] delo earlier who I can't re-evolve unfortunately and yeah I've done Rashford up to 85 who is still

[00:11:13] cracked with that power shot so I can't be too disappointed although you know we had a chat and

[00:11:19] there's a certain player who I'll not name that I am considering evo in uh you and Dan have kind of

[00:11:23] told me no but when you look at the stats actually if you go from purely a gameplay perspective I mean

[00:11:29] there's some crazy cards out there for players that you probably wouldn't have thought you'd

[00:11:33] either want in your team or you know you kind of secretly do kind of want because they look quite

[00:11:37] good or they could do like a past and present team so you know how do you take you know if there's a

[00:11:42] player that you don't agree with either actions they've done on or off the pitch does that stop you

[00:11:46] thinking I'm not I'm not putting them in my team or do you go actually that could be a great you know

[00:11:50] bench boost that could be a game changer for me I think there's only like there's very few players

[00:11:56] that I actually have an objection against I'm not one of those man united fans that won't feel the

[00:12:01] liverpool player in my squad if I pretend to have a enmity and rivalry but at the end of the day I'm living

[00:12:08] in Brisbane I'm not really that um against liverpool as a squad yeah I don't want them to do well but I

[00:12:16] on a game of FUD I can put a liverpool player in there it doesn't really matter

[00:12:22] but there are certain players that I don't even want to have a look at because of certain reasons and

[00:12:30] but I guess it's one of those things where it's the age-old question of can you separate the art from

[00:12:35] the artist and that's the part that yeah it's a tricky one that it's a very tricky one I

[00:12:44] I do I guess yeah I think it could be up to interpretation but yeah I feel like I've summed you on that

[00:12:50] question I'm going to take that as a win for the host today because I quite like going to kind of put

[00:12:54] you on the spot a little bit I mean to be honest it might show my moral compass is a lot lower than yours

[00:12:58] that's all I'm saying but maybe you're a better guy but no like it does give you lots of different

[00:13:05] options and you know team building like we all love team building I mean that's that's a big part of

[00:13:10] you know the game and it does give another dimension not just evos but the players that you can now put

[00:13:15] in these evos and you know we see certain promo promos avoiding certain players because of you know

[00:13:20] on or off field antics so it does kind of give you a whole new sort of variety and selection issue I

[00:13:26] think anyway but I'm not saying it's a good or a bad thing I think it's down to the person themselves

[00:13:30] but it definitely makes a good discussion point for folk absolutely I think one of the things we

[00:13:36] discussed in last week's show as well Dan and I was the fact that evolutions actually may are the

[00:13:40] only tangible way that you can improve your score without getting like amazing backlog so not having

[00:13:46] evolutions is really frustrating because I couldn't really progress my team but right now even though

[00:13:51] I have a manual that I love using and have a connection with the player just having that option of

[00:13:56] having a sissoko that I have an upgrade and just throw in my club for a time that I just want to

[00:14:01] change things up keeps me going and that was that's a huge deal that's an amazingly huge deal yeah

[00:14:08] absolutely and you know the likes of sissoko which kind of takes on to the next sort of the next return

[00:14:14] if you like the we've got the one the one nation cup but just cups in general you know we're going to

[00:14:19] discuss how erratic it's been the release of it but players like sissoko or um maybe not so much

[00:14:26] i see though because i don't think anyone's going to use use that nation but even you know uh

[00:14:30] ugarte that got released last night as well as a united fan i'm going to do him anyway and hope that

[00:14:34] well i hope that united win every game don't get me wrong but even not like he's probably good fit for

[00:14:39] an evo down the line as well with some of the traits and in play styles he's got but sissoko could link

[00:14:45] into that and like i say the cup's back uh this was a point i wanted to raise and again they released

[00:14:51] it like late last night with the with the content but you know am i being greedy shack like last the

[00:14:57] last year we kind of had a new cup pretty much every week of a promo sometimes the the cup lasted two

[00:15:01] weeks for the whole promo for team one and team two but like the cup to me hasn't been released to any

[00:15:07] sort of rhyme or reason there's not really been a schedule that you go cups coming back that's

[00:15:11] great it's another way to get a few extra decent rated players like what's your thoughts on that

[00:15:16] yeah i think the cup just really took me by surprise because they hadn't thrown the cup

[00:15:21] around for a while and we had it's the same cup as well it's the same one nation cup with exactly the

[00:15:25] same rewards as it was and the first time it came around and one of the things that i picked up on x

[00:15:31] was the fact that this time the cup seems a lot harder to get through i don't think people are doing

[00:15:38] golden gold which is okay but from reading a few tweets it felt like the cup was much harder to get

[00:15:44] wins this time because for example you and me have completed the season so there's no incentive apart

[00:15:50] from a few packs and we all we have to get our rivals done and i'm sure there'll be a rush objective that

[00:15:55] starts tomorrow so it'll just it'll just it's just a matter of priority whether we can just spend some

[00:16:00] time to the the cup or not so i don't think that many people are actually playing the cup which means

[00:16:04] the way the hardcores are playing the cup so that's probably what's happening because there's no

[00:16:09] fixed schedule as such but i do i mean don't get me wrong i really enjoy the cups and i really want

[00:16:15] them to be a mainstay somewhere where you can just go chill and just play a fun game and i have to say

[00:16:22] my experience is like i've played four games i've won three and uh all three of them were golden goals

[00:16:28] as well and then i quit out one down as well so oh no i lost on penalty sorry the guy didn't quit out and

[00:16:32] it was kind of a topsy-turvy game and lost on penalty so can't really say i've had much of that

[00:16:37] i mean i i think it's worth it for the the packs alone but the other thing that kind of like surprised

[00:16:43] me is they've released the cup but there's only about two days on it because i think it the cup goes away

[00:16:46] at the end of the end of the season as well so actually i know it's not lots and lots of you know

[00:16:52] games and packs back but still quite a limited sort of time scale to fit these games in if if you're

[00:16:58] somebody that either struggles and friendlies or just gets a bad run of opponents or

[00:17:02] you know dip in form i think it's a bit odd that you only get sort of two days to complete this

[00:17:07] but i think the uh the main reason that this is why i think the main reason they have the cup around

[00:17:11] is for the sp and you get a thousand sp if i'm not mistaken for scoring 12 goals yeah i think there's

[00:17:16] two lots of a thousand as well isn't there isn't it so i think there's another one for play is it

[00:17:21] either win 10 games or play 10 games you get a thousand and so there are some in there but and

[00:17:26] oh yeah i totally see that but part of me thinks well if you're going to release that release it on

[00:17:29] friday so you've got the week to do it i think releasing two days is a little bit harsh but

[00:17:34] maybe that's me with the kind of the the negative side of things going that's a bit strange but

[00:17:40] i mean we're quite lucky we can sit here with our feet up you know we've got our sp for the

[00:17:44] for the the season so we can we can chill and i'm just doing it to get extra backs and like i say

[00:17:48] rivals is done and rush is done for now so it's pretty much the only thing to do um and i've done all

[00:17:53] my squad battles because i combined the three million uh foundation sort of ways that you can do it so i've got

[00:17:59] i think i've got four of the foundation teams now done so i've literally got nothing left to do

[00:18:05] um so we're currently in team one of trailblazers shack um what do you think is over the past

[00:18:11] probably since i've been involved in foot actually we're hearing same players copy and paste copy and

[00:18:16] paste why aren't they mixing up like what's your thoughts on that because we we have touched on it

[00:18:21] in the past like sometimes we change our own tunes we say that's really lazy or there's the other

[00:18:26] side saying well if you have random players that either aren't that popular people haven't heard of

[00:18:30] you know ea won't get people open in packs or people won't want to you know play the game for

[00:18:35] that week because these players aren't the ones they want where do you sit on that like i think it's quite

[00:18:40] an interesting sort of point of view that people have it is i mean and if you if you scale back to

[00:18:45] maybe four five years ago when promos were um quite rare as in still often but much rarer than they

[00:18:52] are right now we can point a stick at ea and say hang on a minute what are you doing

[00:18:58] but right now with the number of promos that are happening and ea has probably got a some sort

[00:19:03] of graph that talks about which player should be improved at what time and how much will actually

[00:19:09] result in pack sales and things so they are following a formula that works for them and you

[00:19:13] can't blame them because they need to have something in packs to entice people to open packs which is

[00:19:17] literally their whole game model so it is frustrating that we can it comes across that it's a copy and

[00:19:23] paste you would hope that some sort of change there would be um enticing for example last year we had

[00:19:31] put they as we had one marty it's literally promo after promo we had exactly the same thing we had

[00:19:37] griezmann and in trailblazers the last time griezmann trailblazers this time we had delorenzo

[00:19:41] delorenzo it's almost the same cards it's almost the same progression but i guess the opportunity like

[00:19:47] as we discussed the evolutions and those kind of varieties that they're providing us is probably

[00:19:51] where we should be focusing our attention to and think of promo cards as one of those

[00:19:55] um unicorns that way if you pack it's great if you don't pack it just ignore it because you're not

[00:20:00] going to get to play with those cards apart from playing in draft anyway yeah no i think that's a good

[00:20:06] way and to be honest just looking at you know the latest promo just on footbinder now it seems like this

[00:20:10] is the first one they've kind of put a real mix though we've got harland and in uh bonmati and

[00:20:17] obviously kivara kivara donna because i'm not going to try and pronounce his real name um he's just

[00:20:21] obviously fresh off the player of the month but i don't think um from memory have much control of

[00:20:26] that because i think they have a release schedule quite a way ahead and you know i'm not interested

[00:20:30] in the new one if i pack them great but i did his player of the month which was pretty decent um

[00:20:35] you know but then they've got like hemp didn't have one till later on last year stanway's kind of a

[00:20:41] bit different band or i don't really remember having much of an impact uh anthony robinson last

[00:20:47] promo card that was amazing apart from team of the season i think he had silver stars two years ago

[00:20:52] which was really good fun um so yeah even the goalkeeper they've actually included a goalkeeper

[00:20:58] in this one which is quite nice even though he's only 84 so i do and obviously uh john duran as well

[00:21:04] who looks pretty crazy for for being quite low rated and low priced but i think they are trying to force

[00:21:10] in a few players that aren't always the same i think you're right they do need to entice people

[00:21:16] to have a reason to open packs and you know i don't think anyone would say no to pack in howland or

[00:21:21] or bon matty or even the sort of that cool palmer who has just had a player of the month as well so

[00:21:26] i think some of the cards are nice i can totally see why they've kept these high-end ones but

[00:21:30] the pack weight still i mean i must moan about this the actual the amount of packs that you open to

[00:21:35] the amount of you know red flares that you're seeing is is minimal and you know even at this early

[00:21:40] stage i'm now sitting here going we've got no chance at team of the year like absolutely no

[00:21:44] chance of packing anyone um even in our discord we get some nice pulls from the gamble sbcs but

[00:21:49] we're not seeing it popping off really for you know the uh the promo players there's not many

[00:21:55] top end promo players being pulled from anyone really that i'm seeing yeah exactly uh uh that's

[00:22:02] a note that i had a look at the discord as well and not a single um promo pack of note shows up

[00:22:09] and that kind of makes you wonder what the actual pack rate is and as you said team of the year is

[00:22:14] going to be another kettle of fish completely yeah absolutely i mean do you think the fact that

[00:22:19] they've not released sort of player picks on a monday they they did that pretty consistently last

[00:22:24] year but now we're still having is it the 77 double i think it is at the moment yeah so i mean for

[00:22:30] me that's i'm not even bothering with them unless i've got a full dupe pile that i want to kind of

[00:22:34] clear out in case i've got more dupes coming from these rewards that we get but does does that impact

[00:22:39] it you think because you like a player pick for me at least gives you a chance of having either

[00:22:44] something new something fresh enough it's one of three even though you only get one player you've got

[00:22:48] you feel like you've got more chance of you know obtaining something unusual i think with player picks

[00:22:53] we started them at some point last year and it was consistent after that but i don't remember

[00:22:57] getting player picks in october november last year maybe november we did but not october

[00:23:02] so i think we're failing to forget that which is literally just one month into the game that we

[00:23:07] even have upgrade packs to grind and things and we also have league spcs and as dan mentioned yesterday

[00:23:13] unfortunately the league spcs are kind of skewed because one of the segments costs you 25k at a pop

[00:23:21] so that's kind of made it slightly complicated but i think there's no real upgrade grind and i think

[00:23:26] player picks will be coming soon and that'll probably make it a slightly easier for us to pack these

[00:23:31] um promo cards but yeah some of these cards i think we spoke about this before some of these cards that

[00:23:37] were released towards the end of last year when you had these um all these specials and packs and you

[00:23:43] pack a card you think oh i had no idea this card was a special card that was in game and

[00:23:48] you've just never seen it around yeah absolutely and i'm wondering when you look at the requirements

[00:23:53] where you still need six res for double 77 upgrade like i think personally that the spc storage

[00:23:59] is coming to factor there because they know that people now don't have to just discard cards like

[00:24:04] you can you can store it so i'm wondering whether that's meaning going forward will always require

[00:24:09] a few more res than you know before it was maybe two rares or three rares or whatever so it'll be

[00:24:14] interesting to see how you play out because i think people may get a bit disheartened if you're

[00:24:18] constantly having to put you know six rares into a 75 plus you know one of three players but that

[00:24:26] that's where you're going to be seen and i think the other big thing as well is in these 78 pluses

[00:24:33] and the 75 pluses that we get from rewards you can't really pack icons because there's no promo

[00:24:41] icons that have been released as well so that's another big and i think we will see a huge change when

[00:24:48] we see promo icons and banks that are packable through these upgrade spcs and which will also bring

[00:24:53] the prices of normal icons down i think we are i think as i said we're just a month a month into the

[00:24:58] game but it's starting to feel like there's so much content out there that is unattainable yeah

[00:25:05] absolutely and you know you've mentioned we're a month into the game so that brings us really nicely

[00:25:09] onto our next sort of topic um state of the game either post patch or you know we are a month in

[00:25:15] and it's crazy because it feels like we've been in this game for the last six months like i'm not quite

[00:25:20] sure how time flies like it has but i it's mental to think that only it was probably about a month ago

[00:25:25] around now that it was on full release for for everybody so we've probably had it maybe six

[00:25:29] weeks but how are you finding it how well we'll go on to the the post patch because we've got a really

[00:25:34] good question in for that but in general how are you enjoying the game are you finding you know we're

[00:25:39] progressing as you'd expect is it is are you enjoying the gameplay are you enjoying the grind of the

[00:25:43] menus like what's your thoughts i as i said i haven't played champs so i think the weekends that

[00:25:50] i don't play champs i tend to enjoy the game a lot more because i don't have that pressure of

[00:25:55] i think it's a time pressure of trying to get those 15 games done on the weekend when you have other

[00:26:00] things to do and your family commitments and life commitments as such so when you don't have that

[00:26:05] it's quite liberating to play the game for playing the game rather than trying to play the game for a

[00:26:10] particular reward or particular victory level rank or whatever so i do enjoy these weeks that i actually

[00:26:17] don't play champs and i am trying to stick to that mantra of not trying to engage with every single bit

[00:26:23] of content some things i will do some things i will skip if i feel i'm playing rush i'll play rush if i

[00:26:29] don't feel like it that's fine and i think i've found my happy balance and i hope to stick to this

[00:26:35] balance for a while we'll hold you to that because i can well imagine in the group chat you'll be

[00:26:39] shouting out saying why have i done this it's the usual one of us says we're going to do something

[00:26:45] and then immediately sort of goes back on there one little thing that i've noticed in the gameplay

[00:26:51] which i've not actually seen picked up on any of the socials and stuff the referees like last year

[00:26:58] the amount of penalties that i gave away from just trying to block a shot you know just putting like a

[00:27:04] standing tackle in or even sliding trying to block i gave away a stupid amount of penalties that doesn't

[00:27:09] seem to be happening this year which i think is really good for my mental health that's going to

[00:27:13] stop me pulling my beard off and my hair off but i don't know if you've noticed any little tweaks

[00:27:16] like that this year you know something that's maybe yeah you haven't made a big thing about how we're

[00:27:21] we're changing this or we're doing that but just a nice or not so nice little tweak that you've

[00:27:26] noticed is there anything else that you've kind of you've picked up on yeah that's quite right

[00:27:30] actually i think uh even the the tackle from behind where you can actually pull someone down

[00:27:36] it is quite effective just outside the box it's really effective outside the box and it's quite

[00:27:40] satisfying you can imagine the other person throwing a controller and having a wee rage that

[00:27:45] you're clean on goal or or even just starting to count i love to do it in the center circle it's my

[00:27:49] favorite one because you've got no chance of a red but you know that actually that diaby is going to go

[00:27:55] fly away from my slower player and all of a sudden you're like now you're stuck on the floor pal unlucky

[00:28:00] that's exactly right and i think uh one of the unique things that popping out this this this time

[00:28:06] around is obviously there are some meta formations like the 442 and blah blah there's a whole heap of

[00:28:10] meta formations of five banks and things but i have been dabbling with different formations and

[00:28:16] to varying degrees of success so i think it's it's nice to try and not have that pressure of having a

[00:28:23] meta formation so you can get those wins done so you can just be a little bit more flexible i think

[00:28:28] quite a lot of formations are actually viable but are they meta not really but it's it's about

[00:28:34] finding your own fun and i think it i have i have found some sort of um fun within the game this this

[00:28:41] particular week so i i think i i really would want people to try and just try something different if

[00:28:47] they're getting stuck of doing the same thing over and over again yeah absolutely and you know we've

[00:28:52] touched on in the past but i think player roles and instructions are really effective this year

[00:28:56] um i was trying to shoehorn a certain formation with certain players then um but i usually i like my

[00:29:02] four triple two but i you know i had finney rashford um i think garnacho that all play like wide meds or

[00:29:10] wingers so dan had said why don't you do a four four two second variant so you've got the two cdms

[00:29:15] and put them as inside forwards and it actually plays just just about the same as the four triple two

[00:29:20] so i really like that the fact that you kind of have this ability whereas last year we

[00:29:24] we didn't everyone was playing four three two one or you know maybe playing a five back to count to

[00:29:29] the four three two one and it was everyone was doing the same thing whereas even you know if you

[00:29:33] go into into youtube now and google meta fc25 tactics everybody is using different formations like

[00:29:41] sure some of the big ones are using like you say four four two or or whatever but there's so many

[00:29:46] variations and different formations that i think that's you know that's one thing that i will say kudos to

[00:29:51] a because no one's really having to play the same way to combat you know this op tactic or they're

[00:29:56] doing that even you know but but then the post patch they said they were going to nerf you know uh

[00:30:01] player formations and you know this'll this'll tie in nicely with the the question we got in our discord

[00:30:06] uh bankai 35 but i would like to know how much of what was described in the patch notes for gameplay

[00:30:12] do you feel have made a difference i still feel attacking is not great and i still pass off side

[00:30:17] players so have you noticed has has the patch done what they've said has the patch changed much like

[00:30:23] how do you feel now that we're what a week a week and a half two weeks into the new patch like

[00:30:28] has it changed is it a different game now than it was a few weeks ago not really initially i think we

[00:30:33] were very excited that it's going to revolutionize the game but i don't think that it's changed much

[00:30:38] within the game i think the travellers are still working if you really try them the power shots are better

[00:30:44] than ever uh and the passing is is as it it was before the patch some of the movement is as

[00:30:52] as it was before the patch i don't really think it's a huge difference to be honest

[00:30:56] yeah i'm with you on that i missed sort of the the launch week of the patch because i was on holiday so

[00:31:01] i was a few days behind you but i can't say it's a different game you know from pre-holiday to post-holiday

[00:31:06] and i'm one of the very few people that actually didn't mind the gameplay before you know five backs

[00:31:12] are frustrating at times but i also think that people with five backs tend to have you know

[00:31:18] stopper or a ball playing defender so they're always likely to move somebody out of position or the wing

[00:31:23] backs are really high so you can get in so i think it's about perspective and and if you're calm in

[00:31:28] the game and you can notice what the opponent's doing i don't think i found much you know i've

[00:31:33] obviously taken a few hide-ins and there's players that are much better level than i am but in terms of

[00:31:38] you know the gameplay i think there's always ways around things without necessarily having to play

[00:31:42] the same style or the same formation so i think the patch has been quite minimal considering what

[00:31:48] a big patch it was meant to be um just from from my experience but again i wasn't you know unhappy with

[00:31:54] the state of it beforehand so i'm certainly not going to sit and complain about what it's like just now

[00:31:58] exactly yeah and i i think the one bit that is still it kind of baffles me sometimes with the

[00:32:07] gameplay is the fact that the tackle backs keep happening and when they start to um happen game

[00:32:14] after game especially during champs and when you don't feel like you have control of the game

[00:32:18] that's the part that i really can't overcome and that that's the part that probably gets me a little

[00:32:22] frustrated so spacing out my games or not playing game of the game or just taking a break every now and

[00:32:28] then just allows you to reset and play slower and maybe reduce your frustration on the tackle backs

[00:32:33] and do something else and move the ball to the wing and things like that yeah absolutely i mean

[00:32:38] i do feel like it's a slower game i think well maybe the game itself is not slow but i think you get

[00:32:42] rewarded for for playing slower and you know i think dan's touched on the past and you know um we

[00:32:48] spoke about a couple of weeks ago as well but you know playing the ball in triangles or even in squares

[00:32:53] and diamonds keeping possession not playing silly passes i think you get really rewarded

[00:32:57] for that especially just now when you know you're playing with players with three-star weak foot so

[00:33:01] you're playing with people with you know high 70s or low 80s passing i think if you if you understand

[00:33:06] the game and the mechanics you know a player with a three-star weak foot isn't going to hit a 20 yard

[00:33:11] pass accurately all the times especially if he's facing the other way so i think sort of taking a

[00:33:16] week you know a wee breath almost and going actually i'm going to play this in a realistic manner i

[00:33:21] think you actually get more rewarded than possibly any fifa or fc game that we've had sort of prior to this

[00:33:28] i think i that's i like your i like your approach to the game but also i just want to caveat the fact

[00:33:37] that you play on pc which is apparently a lot smoother than console so i think your experience

[00:33:45] might be slightly better than what the average console user is currently experiencing with the

[00:33:49] smoothness of the game within how it actually processes and runs i think that's again this is purely based on

[00:33:57] anecdotal evidence rather than me actually experiencing it for myself all the big time

[00:34:02] youtubers and things have moved across to playing the game on pc because apparently it's a much more

[00:34:06] the gameplay but you have a lot of other issues as well on pc which you don't really have on console

[00:34:10] so it's it's it's just about picking your poison i guess yeah absolutely i mean if i wanted to buy a

[00:34:16] top-end player i'm probably trying to pay three or four times the price of you at some times and you

[00:34:20] know we were talking about building my squad and you and dana both said how about x player y player he's

[00:34:25] quite cheap and then i look at him and go i'm not paying 800k on a player and you guys are like

[00:34:29] it's only 500 i'm like not on pc so it does have its its benefits and you know i i'm okay with that

[00:34:36] because as you guys keep alluding to i am a total dragon i don't really like spending my coins and

[00:34:40] when i do i'd rather keep them for spcs that i want to do or potentially evos so i'm not in a rush to

[00:34:46] kind of buy players so it's fine from that way and yeah i could well be seeing things through a pc

[00:34:51] player's perspective and you know i i can't i can only comment on what i use when i can't gripe

[00:34:55] with it in that way um in terms of you know we discussed early doors how you are going to approach

[00:35:01] say rivals you know last year you were very happy to not get into elite say and whereas you know i was

[00:35:07] i was pushing myself to be in there because i i just can't not but how are you adapting to you

[00:35:14] know the fact there's relegation the fact that you know god squads are everywhere already like is your

[00:35:19] is your approach the rivals changed are you trying to get into div one and sit there are you happy in

[00:35:24] division like how do you how do you do your rivals especially i'm at the checkpoint between div three

[00:35:29] and div two and i get so close to div two and i just think i bottle it and which is fine i completely

[00:35:39] it's fine i've not progressed to div two ever and i think i want to stay at this level because i think if

[00:35:45] i really want to pace myself through and just get my games done and have fun and not really push

[00:35:50] myself too much this is probably my level for me to just continue enjoying the game because i know if

[00:35:55] i go up to do i accidentally fell into div three i really i just as i shared with you in the group

[00:36:01] i was in the corner between day four and if three and i was just about to quit the game this guy did a

[00:36:07] gritty on me and i just got tilted and beat the guy three two and the rest is history i came across

[00:36:13] the day three um i don't think i have lofty expectations to go into elite division because

[00:36:19] i'm looking at some of the things where people have mentioned in our discord even that they've had a 19

[00:36:24] game run where they've won one game i don't think my my mental state can handle that yeah no that's

[00:36:31] absolutely fair you you know yourself it's bad enough in in these divisions when you go on like

[00:36:35] a two or three game run where you go that's not working and i'll put my hands up i do that quite a

[00:36:40] lot and then that's when i go into different formations and change my side around again which

[00:36:43] i know you know from the coaching point of view that is the worst thing you can do stick where

[00:36:48] formation that you know you know the players runs and you know you could just be on a bad run of

[00:36:51] form i could take a break whatever but i you know i'm the same as you like i i like to finish my week

[00:36:57] on div two because i think the rewards are slightly better in div two than div three but if i finish

[00:37:02] in div three then it's fine um i quite like the fact that you've still got the checkpoint in div three so

[00:37:08] you can almost time your pushes for div two well so uh you know at the start of my 45 points i like

[00:37:15] to remain very much div three towards the end of it i try and get myself up and you know the last game

[00:37:21] or whatever i like to push myself into that um i've certainly got no aspirations to be much higher just

[00:37:26] now uh i'm happy to be staying there because obviously with with the system reset it'll be interesting

[00:37:31] because i think at this stage last year you went back two divisions i believe uh in relegation it was

[00:37:36] only towards the end of the game that you only went back one so i don't think i've seen anything

[00:37:40] to say that you know which way they're going to take i hope they just put us back to div three

[00:37:44] because that that's where i inevitably would have ended up after one or two games and

[00:37:49] div two on a thursday morning after you know rewards anyway so hopefully it's just a one knock back but

[00:37:55] it'll be interesting to see how how that goes that's that's that's quite right finally just on the state of

[00:38:02] the play you know before we go ahead can i just ask you can we start a new segment called coach in the

[00:38:07] casual coach you're the coach and i'm the casual in this conversation at least i just want to ask you

[00:38:14] you you pointed out the fact about you know when you're having a struggling and having a rough time

[00:38:18] the worst thing to do is change your formation as a as a casual my question to you as mr coach is

[00:38:25] sometimes when you're using the same formation you tend to go on autopilot so just changing the

[00:38:31] formation makes you start to be a little bit more attentive to what's happening with your players

[00:38:36] would you recommend that just for that brain snap to try and focus a little bit more or it's a no no

[00:38:43] to be honest i think it depends completely on your mindset or on your your goals and on on the game like

[00:38:49] if you're going purely for results i would say stick with the formations you know if it's worked

[00:38:54] for you if it's and obviously patches bring things in and you know but if it's worked for you and it's

[00:39:00] got you to x level you know you you know you've got your formations and your tactics and your

[00:39:04] instructions set up you know where x y and z are going to run you know what strength that player has

[00:39:09] in that position so you know you know he's got five star weak foot with long ball plus he can ping

[00:39:13] the ball and you know he can be almost be your dictator in the middle um if you've got a fast

[00:39:17] striker that you know you've kind of got on advanced forward or even poach you know he's

[00:39:21] going to be really advanced you can exploit that i think if you're doing it purely from a fun

[00:39:25] perspective and you know going back to the conversation we had a few minutes ago about

[00:39:29] how every formation is viable i quite enjoy mixing up and trying different formations but

[00:39:33] i'm well aware that you know it takes quite a minute to understand how players work in different

[00:39:39] formations and different tactics and roles so if you play say three in the middle uh if you go from a

[00:39:44] two in the middle to three in the middle of your midfield you've always got an extra player to play

[00:39:48] to which is really good but then if you do it the other way around and you go from like a three like

[00:39:53] a four three three to a four four two the two in the midfield are slightly more open so you can almost

[00:39:58] get you know it's harder on transition you also don't have the extra sort of player in the middle

[00:40:02] where you can play those passes to around so it i think from from a casual point of view it's up to

[00:40:09] your aims if you're aiming as a casual to get into the next division and you're just on a

[00:40:13] three game losing streak i would say absolutely stick with what you're doing just take a break

[00:40:18] you know maybe watch some footage back and kind of see a lot of the time when you know when i lose

[00:40:23] games i look in and say oh i was actually in an advanced position and i tried to force the ball

[00:40:26] through and all of a sudden you know my fullback that i triggered forward is well position i get

[00:40:30] counted down that wing so a lot of it is just understanding your own mistakes not you know there's

[00:40:35] not always an issue with the formation it's you know i've played 20 games without a break now i'm

[00:40:40] just really fatigued so actually i'm making really poor choices and and you know my hands are a little

[00:40:45] bit more lethargic so i think there's a there's a lot to be taken in and i actually don't think there's

[00:40:49] a right or wrong answer and i'm sure that you know when john listens to this he might say no i would

[00:40:53] advise totally differently but i i'm i'm a stickler for formations that you know that you enjoy already

[00:40:58] and you know people go on bad runs of form that that happens it happens in real life it happens in real

[00:41:03] football so i i would persevere with it unless you go actually i am always getting battered in the

[00:41:09] middle i need three center backs cool right go to a five back or a three back of that so so there's a

[00:41:15] glaring issue with your gameplay first thing i'd say is come to foot coaching because we're all

[00:41:18] wonderful and we'll sort you out in two minutes but realistically um i do know that you know people

[00:41:24] have issues with their own gameplay if they don't take coaching or they're not willing to watch their own

[00:41:29] gameplay back there are quick fixes but i would i would definitely persevere with what you know and

[00:41:34] what's kind of got you to a good level so far that's perfect that's absolutely perfect i think

[00:41:38] i really like the way you've you've uh explained that as opposed to having a casual approach to it

[00:41:44] and a competitive approach to it so yeah there's this game's got so many different sides to it i think

[00:41:49] everyone's going to have their own opinions and you know hit us up in the comments on you know your

[00:41:54] your provider of the podcasts if you agree if you don't join our discord we're happy to have a chat

[00:41:59] about it but that kind of like just quickly now we're we're two weeks away well you know i've had

[00:42:04] my full sp for two weeks and i do feel like i'm going through the motions i'm doing the objectives

[00:42:08] just for packs like how how do you think like have ea misjudged the timing or you know we can get these

[00:42:15] these quick sp and offline manager mode and player mode and um and there's teams whatever so how do you

[00:42:23] think they've judged the sp and you know does that kind of draw you away from playing foot as much like

[00:42:29] how do you approach it when you know you've you've been sitting on there and there's no real grind in

[00:42:33] terms of your ladder i think historically speaking as well it has been quite easy to complete the

[00:42:38] xp ladder or the sp ladder so it's not a new thing and i think this time around a lot of us because it's

[00:42:45] fresh and new we all went across and did the sp coding and gathering and playing career mode or player

[00:42:52] mode and i even played um a lot of um the fc pro or whatever that's called the pro clubs or whatever

[00:43:01] it's called this year and it was fun trying to experience a different thing and collecting sp but

[00:43:06] from next season onwards i have a strange suspicion this is just a hypothetical theory that i feel from

[00:43:13] next season onwards we won't be getting sp from other game modes but we might also have a potential

[00:43:20] paid season pass they did speak about a season pass i'm sure they have mentioned that in the past and

[00:43:27] it'll be interesting to see the difference if that is the case and you know free and paid like and how

[00:43:34] they price it are they going to do it it's going to be 500 fifa points or 50 000 coins or will you

[00:43:39] will it be a lot more than that will be a lot less will it be a token gesture i think this is quite

[00:43:44] intriguing and you know i said at the start communication is key i'm quite liking the fact that this could be a

[00:43:50] surprise because it's the same with the leaks like i i quite like the leaks to know you know before

[00:43:54] especially when i was heavy into trading i quite like the leaks then now the leaks don't really

[00:43:59] bother me because you know i don't take much notice of that i've kind of dropped out of the trading but

[00:44:04] it's it's interesting because i personally i feel there's been too many ways to get sp and that's

[00:44:09] coming for somebody that doesn't play at weekends you know they've taken sp away from champs and

[00:44:13] certain things like that and i think squad battles don't have sp anymore if i'm right so they have

[00:44:18] taken it away from other ways but i think it's been very easy and it's it's kind of made me think oh

[00:44:23] i could it'd be nice if i got an 85 times two for you know i've actually gone 10 000 over the sp there

[00:44:29] could be something nice there to to reward you but again you know players always want more and i know

[00:44:34] that people may only have two days a week to to play and these these methods are required for you to get

[00:44:40] that a dam or the eight seven times three at the end of the the cycle as well so that's uh that remains to

[00:44:46] be seen how they're going to approach that but it's quite fascinating that you bring that up because

[00:44:49] i totally forgotten about the the tier um quickly shaq while we have you on here um i know that the

[00:44:56] trading show has not really been been easy to come by this year because well as we're going to see

[00:45:02] i just was wondering if you could provide us potentially a market update anything that you've

[00:45:06] seen any sort of uh tools or tips that you can give our listeners just because it seems really hard

[00:45:11] to find coins without a big tradable pool oh yeah it's really hard to actually make some coins this

[00:45:16] this year but also the fact that i think last week's show we actually called out the fact that

[00:45:21] it's things are going to start moving downwards and i think even john referenced it in one of the um

[00:45:26] update shows that he did during the week that it's a good time to get rid of tradables

[00:45:30] tradable club items and i think was the right move if you had any items if you sold them pre-champs

[00:45:36] you'd be laughing all the way to the bank right now with the market as everyone knows we've had a

[00:45:41] huge crash that could be the timing of where we are right now and also coupled in with devolutions

[00:45:46] and going forward it's only going to get worse there's going to be a lot more casino spcs as in

[00:45:52] we've already had hero nikon packs they could be um yeah you know those kind of um gamble spcs that have

[00:45:59] certain promos in those packs and there could be a whole variety of such content and there also

[00:46:06] can't discount the fact that black friday is nearly here so i think the market outlook is pretty gloomy

[00:46:11] for the next maybe three weeks or so and i have a strong feeling that everything will start breathing

[00:46:17] again normally once we get it to black friday i remember last year i think the promo that we had

[00:46:22] for black friday thunderstruck promo was probably my favorite promo of the year last year so hopefully

[00:46:29] we get to that stage unscathed and one easy way to make coins right now could be fodder i know it's

[00:46:36] already gone up but if you see fodder ever going back down in the next maybe two three days it's

[00:46:43] worth just even doing a club stock just a quick club stock would get you a long way i think we're

[00:46:48] missing a lot of spcs so once we have a lot of icon spcs coming our way and people chewing up and i

[00:46:53] think just couple this in with a lot of people have lost coins with tradable cards what's the first thing

[00:46:59] i think of uh i need to have an untradeable team lo and behold here comes ea with a lot of icon spcs

[00:47:06] and other players that you can actually use in your untradeable teams and it just works in really well

[00:47:10] so i think it's it's bound to happen we will get a lot of spcs in the next two to three weeks when you

[00:47:16] say fodder shack do you mean you know 83 is 84 so do you mean sort of higher rated or just a mixture i mean

[00:47:23] a lot of these these uh gamble spcs seem to be quite heavy on 86 ish give or take rated teams like

[00:47:30] if they come down to a good price is that the kind of mix that you want or do you think people should

[00:47:34] try and get higher end fodder or you know or even potentially lower right now i would go with the

[00:47:40] high high end fodder because it's not really peaked as much as maybe the 86s and 85s 85s are really high

[00:47:47] 86s almost some of them are almost extinct so because of the hero spc and the icon sp that has

[00:47:53] this come through but over the weekend if you see a large supply i really would try and club stock the

[00:48:00] 85s and 86s if they drop a good amount but also try and at least get a club stock of 88s and 89s and 90 rated

[00:48:07] as well that's so good because we know that there's a potential uh hero spc coming out that's not a gamble

[00:48:14] it's a again we go back to it but it's one from from yesterday that we already had um that was

[00:48:20] really good to use so keep your eyes peeled for that one because we it looks quite a reliable leak

[00:48:26] that that's coming again we'll not say who it is if you want to i'm sure you'll be able to find on

[00:48:29] on socials but that's it's always interesting to hear the market because this year i have to put my

[00:48:36] hands up i can't read this market at all so i'm quite happy that i'm not really trying

[00:48:40] no i wouldn't this year i've i've tried to trade for a while i had some fun trading and i think i was

[00:48:46] having some fun experimenting with cards and i'm really glad i stopped that experimenting because

[00:48:51] this particular weekend i was just going to go in and do a massive weekend league squad and i thought

[00:48:56] to myself i don't have time let me not buy any squad and i'm thankful for that because people lost a

[00:49:03] whole lot of coins over the weekend dan winbush 65k on ashley cole sorry uh didn't want to put that out

[00:49:11] there but you know dan we will i know you call me you dig me out when i'm not on here so we can dig

[00:49:15] you on that one but he took a bit of a bit of a battering on ashley cole so um but no that that's

[00:49:20] great that kind of rounds everything up shack is there anything else you kind of you want to say

[00:49:24] or you want to add or any points to raise oh no i think yeah as i've said we've covered pretty much

[00:49:30] everything in the game i think just enjoy the game for what it is for now and um yeah that's

[00:49:35] that's all i can say absolutely no that's great if for anyone listening that's not in our discord

[00:49:41] it's free to all if you want to come in and get some chat you know we can speak to us directly there's

[00:49:46] there's a great founder john there's everyone else there's a really thriving sort of community in

[00:49:50] there just now if you want to go that little extra mile there is a patreon to your subscription as

[00:49:55] well which is really appreciated you you know we can we can bring you this in-depth one

[00:50:00] uh twice a week but obviously we've got the shorts coming almost every day so lots of benefits to

[00:50:05] be had in there uh shack then just one last thing drop it we are going to drop it